Hacker Timesnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submitlogin

This is insane. I can't imagine what was going through the Venezuelan captain's head trying to do this.

It's one thing if the shooting is already started to defend yourself. But even if this stunt had worked, you're looking at many months of downtime while your ship is being repaired in drydock. Millions of dollars, and bigtime loss of capability for a small navy.

Unless you are an icebreaker, you just don't intentionally hit anything (tugboats nudge after gently making contact, they do not ram).

If this cruise liner was not following instructions (seems more like an act of piracy than legit, but that is another discussion), then you fire a shot or two off the bow of the offending ship. That usually gets people's attention.

Ramming? WTF?



I mean, less crazy than trying to ram a ship with a locomotive I suppose:

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/0...

https://in.reuters.com/video/watch/idOVC7T0OCH

Strange days.


TIL there is actually a specific US federal law against "wrecking trains".

https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid:USC-2000-t...


A lot of felonious toddlers out there are getting away with it, too.


> "Moreno now faces a federal charge of one count of train wrecking — a crime that carries a maximum penalty of 20 years in prison."

haha, being a trainwreck takes on new consequences. i wish they'd reported the conspiracy theory for which he wrecked the train though.


aw I was hoping that was a video of it crashing. I heard about this; would love to see the video of it crashing off the end of the rail line.


Same here but a quick search on YouTube found plenty of other train crashes to satiate me


Not a crash, but don't miss this one of a locomotive being dropped. Oops.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvyIrsZ7Zhs


haha, what's the under/over on this guy being a q-anon freak?



He is one.


Nah, this is a deep state false flag operation turned comic relief. To think this was QAnon is to not know anything about QAnon.


^ yikes


Ramming (or "shouldering") is not that uncommon. The Chinese Coast Guard has built large, lightly-armed ships[1] partly because the size helps them ram/shoulder other ships out of the way in the course of attempting to build artificial islands and claim sovereignty in the South China Sea.

Of course, ramming an 8500-ton icebreaker with a 1500-ton corvette is a different story, and in the Venezuelan case, the stupid have been punished.

[1] https://thediplomat.com/2016/01/beijing-builds-monster-ship-...

(edited for grammar)


The Russians also used ramming to capture several Ukrainian ships near Crimea.


This is not correct. Russian did not achieve anything by ramming, they even damaged one of their ships instead. The Ukrainian ships effectively surrendered after overwhelming Russian forces opened live fire near and on them. The Wikipedia has it right: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerch_Strait_incident#The_inci...


They damaged their own ship, not by ramming the Ukrainians, but by accidentally colliding with each other.


The Tamil Tigers (?) also used ramming boats to great effect.


Old timers here may recall The Cod Wars?

Iceland and Britain duked it out in three major confrontations, the navies ramming each other but not firing a shot.

There are some truly spectacular videos on YouTube etc.


> Iceland and Britain duked it out in three major confrontations, the navies ramming each other but not firing a shot.

Huh! I had no idea, and just did some research on it. Apparently it started in the 50s and ended in '76.

It kind of gives further context to the Icelandic People's reaction regarding the 2008 Icesave scandal towards the UK. Who went on to put Iceland on the UK's Terrorist list. The UK got paid back in full by 2016.

But I can easily see them being resentful for having the US intervene and stop them from trawling around the Icelandic coast.

Sidenote: according to the this video, shots were fired, and one resulted in the UK having to pay Iceland for the inconvenience of commandeer it:

https://youtu.be/bxu4_AgIL94?t=139


It was Gordon Brown's government who did the stupidity of putting Iceland on a "terror" list. I remember objecting at the time - Iceland had my full sympathy, and that of many other English people.


I remember this quite well. As I recall from the news, the incident went roughly like this: Icelandic coast guard vessel approaches British trawler, orders it to stop and haul in the trawl. Trawler refuses. Coast guard fires warning shots. Trawler keeps going. Coast guard calls up the trawler, tells them to assemble all crew at the aft end, as they are going to fire on the bow. Crew moves aft, shots fired as promised. Now damaged trawler escorted to harbour. All very civilised.

I think it was after this incident that Iceland started figuring out how you can cut the trawl instead. Losing a trawl is a major loss; these things are expensive.


I would recommend BBC's Seriously podcast who did an episode in october '18 about the Cod Wars.

The Icelandic trawl cutters from the conflict were a big national pride here, and growing up in Iceland in the 80's you'd hear the stories about how the Icelandic coastguard outwited the British navy recited quite often.


Venezuela has a habit (recently) of putting loyalty ahead of meritocracy in government positions. I would not be at all surprised if the captain had minimal actual nautical experience, but a lot of party loyalty.


Bingo. This applies to basically all nationalized sectors due to top-down corruption. It's why PDVSA has been collapsing in on itself over the last 15 years in spectacular fashion. All the competent engineers and administrators are dead, in prison, ex-pats, retired, or sorely out-numbered by professional grifters who have mismanaged the organization into the ground.

It took a generation to train a world-class engineering workforce and a generation to tear it down.


A tale as old as time. From the H.M.S. Pinafore by Gilbert and Sullivan (1878):

  I grew so rich that I was sent
  by pocketborough into parliament.
  I always voted at my party's call,
  and I never thought of thinking for myself at all.

  I thought so little, they rewarded me
  by making me the ruler of the Queen's Navy!

  Now landsmen all, whoever you may be,
  if you want to rise to the top of the tree,
  if your soul isn't fettered to an office stool,
  be careful to be guided by this golden rule:

  Stick close to your desks and never go to sea,
  and you all may be rulers of the Queen's Navy!


Even with the merit, it's hard to train a professional Navy. Being a ship captain (or any other position, even the lowly deck seaman) is a mentally challenging task. There's a lot going on and it's expensive to get as much underway time as the well-financed Navies do. Most Navy ships in small countries sit in port a lot, not sure about Venezuela, but they can't have a ton of cash to waste on underway time.


Even lots of money is no guarantee, just look at the US Navy's embarrassing string of recent nautical incidents like the USS FitzGerald's.


Well, ramming used to be BIG:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Lissa_(1866)

One can't possibly blame the captain wanting to be as cool as admiral Tegetthoff back then:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Anton_Romako_001.jpg


No need to go that far back. One famous one is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrol_torpedo_boat_PT-109


Sometimes it works, sometimes it does not:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Glowworm_(H92)

Back in WWI it still worked, with the famous HMS Dreadnought ramming a submarine.


I can't imagine what was going through the Venezuelan captain's head trying to do this.

These regimes see threats behind every curtain and under every plant pot. It’s possible he really believed, or had convinced himself at least, that as the article says it was full of mercenaries planning to overthrow the regime.


> I can't imagine what was going through the Venezuelan captain's head trying to do this.

Well, the article does quote this, which sort of makes sense. Doesn’t seem like a totally insane idea, just really poorly implemented.

> The navy vessel continued to ram the starboard bow in an apparent attempt to turn the ship’s head towards Venezuelan territorial waters.


I wondered if the Captain let himself sink with the ship.




Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: