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In addition there is COVID which means a lot of online learning and none of the college social experience. I know of a coop on my team is considering pausing finishing his degree because he hates online learning and does not feel like he's getting the education he paid for.


What's the alternative? Wait for this to "blow over"? We've been waiting for two years now. Maybe omicron will be it. Or maybe not. We simply don't know. One thing we do know from past experience is those opting-out of college or putting their degree on "pause" rarely return to complete their degree. You simply reach a point where you're focusing on your career, maybe start a family, and so forth and the next thing you know there's simply no time (or money) for college.


The better alternative is to immediately return all students and staff to full in-person education with no mandates or restrictions. Yes that will incur some small but acceptable level of additional risk.


Your comment is the epitome of "some of you will die, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make".


Real life is full of risks. I despise this modern culture of safetyism and fragility. We should teach our youth to be stoic and resilient in the face of danger.


I think the youth are plenty stoic and resilient. They have to be in response to increasing inequality, a shrinking middle class, climate change, and increased authoritarianism. They have never known a time without war and terrorism. School shootings are no longer newsworthy and they grew up drilling for a lone shooter.


What human activity has 0 risk?

For all of human history, there's been a chance that a child will die in a car-accident or be abducted by a child predator on his way to school every day. We haven't said that kids should stop going to school because of this, have we?

There's a non-zero chance people will die traveling to and from work today. We haven't said that people should stop working to save lives, have we?

I think that most people being bad at understanding risk-management is at the core of why there's there's such big divide with how to react to Covid.


We have grown to depend on automobiles for modern life and the economy to function. People can function with kids in masks and home learning, just about. Their quality of life compared to my childhood/teen years is trash though. Additionally society cannot live with hospitals operating at reduced capacity because of COVID overflow. I mean, that alone is reason for managing the risk aggressively.


> We have grown to depend on automobiles for modern life and the economy to function.

So when it comes to cars, what you're saying is that "some of you will die, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make". Am I reading that correctly?

PS: The above is obvious sarcasm. See how ridiculous bad risk-management calculations sound?

> Additionally society cannot live with hospitals operating at reduced capacity because of COVID overflow.

Color me skeptical about the severity of this risk for 2 big reasons.

1) Look at actions, not words. Think about how governors and hospitals are acting. If there was a genuine fear of the hospitals collapsing, they'd be putting out daily public service announcements begging for retired doctors, people with any medical training whatsoever, or even random nuns to come and volunteer to tend to the sick and dying. Instead they're mass-firing healthy "health care heroes" who refuse to get a vaccine. Is that the act of people who are genuinely concerned about overwhelming the health care system?

2) This sensationalism has been happening every cold and flu season: see pic-related. Hospitals are designed to perpetually run at close to full capacity for financial reasons. https://i.imgur.com/50eqkXq.jpg


Point #2; Your only source is a screen shot and exclusively focusing on the NHS, which is notoriously underfunded anyway. COVID certainly isn't helping the NHS which as you have observed struggles in regular flu seasons.

Point #1 government is doing everything they can to prevent that collapse scenario. I'd need to understand more about the machinations of the hospital policies you mentioned. No link to your sources, but I imagine it's not as black and white as you are suggesting.

I find it interesting that some people are like "it's not that bad, why do we need these restrictions? Everything is functioning, what's the problem?"

The thing is "it's not that bad" because of all the restrictions and vaccines. If we did nothing hospitals would absolutely be fucked and people would be dying in the halls.

Model me a world where we didn't bother with masks and other measures, then let's talk.


> Your only source is a screen shot and exclusively focusing on the NHS, which is notoriously underfunded anyway.

Here's a few American, Canadian, and European news stories detailing similar sentiments from well before the Covid mass hysteria programming.

https://www.westernjournal.com/2018-flu-bad-hospitals-treati...

https://www.texastribune.org/2018/01/11/flu-levels-rise-texa...

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-flu-idUSBRE9080WD2013...

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/patient-flow/2-healthc...

https://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/18/nyregion/full-emergency-r...

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2000-jan-09-mn-52273...

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/health-headlines/hospitals-ove...

https://www.france24.com/en/20170111-french-hospitals-cancel...

> government is doing everything they can to prevent that collapse scenario.

Deeds show intent better than empty words.

If they were genuinely concerned about the healthcare system collapsing due to a flood of sick people, they would be screaming daily begging for more health care workers: not firing healthy workers to have Covid positive health-care workers work.

Citations:

https://abc7.com/asymptomatic-california-health-care-workers...

https://afn.net/medical-health/2022/01/12/jab-or-job-califor...

Society has been sold a false bill of goods.


Here is the thing, if COVID is like the flu even with heavy measures to prevent the spread, what would it be like it we just didn't bother with restrictions? Seasonal influenza is not as lethal as COVID and hospitals stress to accommodate it. COVID is being controlled world-wide and still hospitals face the potential of being rapidly overwhelmed. The deeds you are looking for are all around you, from vaccines to masks, limited capacity venues, rapid tests, and so on.

None of your sources talk about hospitals being "designed" to run at full capacity for profit. Canadian, UK, and most other EU hospitals don't run for profit, so that leaves the US. I doubt you'll find a medical director that claims the way to maximize profit is to design a hospital that is on the edge of meltdown every flu season.

"they would be screaming daily begging for more health care workers"

Ahem:

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20210812/hospitals-struggle-...

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-01-07/hospitals...

https://www.aamc.org/news-insights/hospitals-innovate-amid-d...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/staff-shortages-hospit...

There are many more sources citing hospitals struggling to find nurses, your last two citations demonstrate how desperate hospitals are by re-hiring folk who refuse to get vaccinated or are asymptomatic. How desperate do you have to be to put patients at risk of getting infected from their health care worker? I mean talk about rock and a hard place, that's a fucked up position to have to be in and shows that there are very few other avenues to go down.


> Here is the thing, if COVID is like the flu even with heavy measures to prevent the spread, what would it be like it we just didn't bother with restrictions?

There's 2 movies on 1 screen when it comes to the actual stats surrounding Covid-19, so I'm not going to argue that with you.

I'll just ask you about what's serving as the "control groups". How are, say, Amish Country PA and Florida doing? Forget any stats about "cases" you can come up with for a moment: how are normal peoples' actual lives going in places where masks and most preventative measures are less common? Are people living their lives more or less normally, or are these regions wastelands of disease and death with survivors roaming the streets begging for medical attention?


> Forget any stats about "cases" you can come up with for a moment: how are normal peoples' actual lives going in places where masks and most preventative measures are less common?

Forget stats about cases in order to understand stats on cases in areas with fewer preventative measures? What kind of crazy is that?

If you do care to look at stats on the Amish community there is this paper: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34117598/

And I think we all know how Florida is doing: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article25729082...

I don't know how else to understand COVID impact without data and factual, meaningful statistics.


Yes, forget the stats and look at peoples' actual lives.

Life in these places is more or less the same as it always has been, other than it passing the peak of cold season. People go out without forced masks and having to show their medical histories to enter buildings. Yet these places haven't collapsed. Why not?

If the Covid narrative that we had to mask up everywhere and check your papers to ensure safety or society would collapse is accurate, why is this "control group" (for lack of a better term) not collapsing?


Hello from the UK where we've mostly followed a policy of "let it rip", albeit that's sometimes been disguised.

We're fucked.

We've had very high rates of death, and we've destroyed our economy.


> the UK where we've mostly followed a policy of "let it rip"

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't the UK implemented vaccine and mask mandates?


The 3rd calendar year into this this, I'm willing to make that sacrifice. Everyone who wants to be vaccinated is vaccinated. Young people will overwhelmingly be fine. The old should make sacrifices for the young, not the other way around.


I think for him pausing and perhaps just having a career is the best of a bad situation. His education doesn't work for him as is.




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