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> How do you arrive at the claim that "probably most" donations go to "pushing woke politics"?

As noted in their own 2020 report:

https://foundation.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File%3AWi...

Only 2.4 of the 112.4 million spent was actually on maintaining the servers themselves. The rest were spent on salaries (55.6 million (!!)), grants (22.8 million (!, why?)), & "Professional services" (11.67 million (again, why?)).

> What does "pushing woke politics" mean?

From what I can gather, it's the promotion of leftist talking points that relegates objectivism & personal liberty in favor of any form of rebalancing, be it racial, political, economical, social, gender-based, or sexual.

My problem with this is that its mainly a phenomenon that's isolated to western countries, with Asian & Middle-eastern countries seemingly skirting by with LGBT+ arrests & atrocities without any major recompense.

> Why is the cost of web hosting so important? Do any comparable organisations spend a more appropriate proportion of their revenue on web hosting?

This is mainly because Wikipedia's donation drives make it look like "Donate to us to keep the servers running", when their own reports make it clear that a lot of the donated funds have been sucked up by the foundation's own internal mechanisms.

> Which political extremists have taken over?

Mainly left-oriented extremists, with the organizations listed from here onwards being examples that were funded by the foundation.

https://twitter.com/echetus/status/1579779097278181378

> What is ruined?

For one: Wikipedia's neutral reputation.

Wikipedia was supposed to be a place where consensus could be reached without falling into the trappings of personal or political bias. Instead, the foundation is now seeking to reduce its own transparency by ceasing the publications of its quarterly reviews:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2...

Side note: Gish-gallop-style questions are note a conducive way of inviting conversations around a topic.



> Only 2.4 of the 112.4 million spent was actually on maintaining the servers themselves. ... why?

You seem to be arguing that anything other than strictly server maintenance is wrong, immoral or unnecessary. I'm not sure why that would be the case.

I think people may be focusing on these high-level figures a bit too much. The Wikimedia website has other information about what it is they are actually doing.

> Wikipedia's donation drives make it look like "Donate to us to keep the servers running"

Fair enough, I can imagine how that could be an issue. As one opposed to such manipulations in general, a critique of the sort of messaging being used is something that I would welcome.

> Side note: Gish-gallop-style questions are note a conducive way of inviting conversations around a topic.

Thanks, I didn't know that term before. I used a string of blunt questions formatted in that way to be as clear as possible, and because it mirrored the form of the OP's comment.


> You seem to be arguing that anything other than strictly server maintenance is wrong, immoral or unnecessary. I'm not sure why that would be the case.

This is answered by

> Wikipedia's donation drives make it look like "Donate to us to keep the servers running"


Meanwhile I've only ever considered the banners to be annoying and beg-y, but not any sort of claim that they are running out of money. Do the people "scammed" by "help us reach our fundraising goal" also get scammed by those emails about "donald trump's defense fund" and similar? Why didn't they just look up whether wikipedia is running out of money?

I don't understand how a disruptive banner that makes no claims can be considered nefarious.


I didn't mention claims of running out of money. I don't know what your first paragraph is based on.

> banner that makes no claims

Look at this example [0]. If you read that, what would you say the money is going to?

[0] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikimedia_Founda...


Anything other than server maintenance or tangibly improving Wikipedia and directly supporting technical projects is unnecessary. Frankly nobody cares about the rest aside from the people getting money as a result and maybe their family and friends.

It’s like Mozilla and all of their non-Firefox/Thunderbird bullshit. Bloat for the sake of bloat.


> > Side note: Gish-gallop-style questions are note a conducive way of inviting conversations around a topic.

> Thanks, I didn't know that term before. I used a string of blunt questions formatted in that way to be as clear as possible, and because it mirrored the form of the OP's comment.

It's also a mis-use of the term. It's for live debates when you just dump a series of questions on the opponent without giving them time to respond, trying to make them look stupid to observers. Doesn't really apply to text like here, when you can take as long as you need to type of the reply.


It totally does apply here and has the same effect. The dwell time between responses makes the questioner look correct to casual readers.


> You seem to be arguing that anything other than strictly server maintenance is wrong, immoral or unnecessary.

I suspect the OP would be perfectly fine with Wikimedia hiring translators to translate more of the 6.5 million English articles into other languages which are often considerably less developed. Or funding more development of their textbooks, dictionaries and other content. They clearly have ample funds that seem to be going to more dubious ends.


> I suspect the OP would be perfectly fine with Wikimedia hiring translators to translate more of the 6.5 million English articles into other languages which are often considerably less developed. Or funding more development of their textbooks, dictionaries and other content. They clearly have ample funds that seem to be going to more dubious ends.

...I would rather that the translation efforts be done by the community & translation services than by the foundation itself. Pushing the effort of translation onto the foundation gives them authority over the translated material, & consequently authority on the original material itself.

In principle, I would like the scope of work for any foundation to be as minimal as possible, & to be directly related to the direct operations & maintenance of the service being provided. Any additional efforts beyond that invites scope creep & will inevitably bloat any organization with non-related work.


> From what I can gather, it's the promotion of leftist talking points that relegates objectivism & personal liberty in favor of any form of rebalancing, be it racial, political, economical, social, gender-based, or sexual.

This does not read like a good-faith interpretation to me. Small-o objectivism and personal liberty are not at all incompatible with a "woke" perspective on race; I daresay relativism -- particularly moral relativism -- is a minority opinion even among leftists. Nor is it necessarily the case that being woke means you're in favor of enforced rebalancing on the basis of race, ethnicity, etc. Wokeness, in my experience, is far more concerned with issues of justice than with rebalancing (which I take to mean something akin to affirmative action or reparations).


What do you think justice means in a "woke" context? My understanding that justice is equity, not equality, in the current jargon.




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