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Every city in America is so much incredibly safer than it was in 1990 that nobody old enough to remember that is going to be bothered by much of anything.

(That is, if you think now's bad, you should've seen it then.)



'actually the murder rate isn't that bad'


Bad is relative. Bad compared to perfect European utopias, yes. Bad compared to the same city 30-40 years ago, no.


Nobody really cares about the murder rate. What they care about is being murdered.

A city where gangs are killing each other off but never bother normal people will feel much safer than a city where a comparatively few people are killed but it’s from the greater pool of everyone.


Nationwide crime is up 50% in the past 3 years, and at about 70% of the 1991 all time high. It's safer than our absolute peak for sure, but this historical reversal should be very concerning.


We should all be incredibly skeptical of the claim. For the 2020-2021 years our rates in Charleston were returning to the “90s Crack Epidemic” rates.

Much like other commenters in the thread, I’ve had a man threaten to “cut my mother effing throat” in broad daylight in front of a dozen bystanders. Thankfully, he turned tail once I drew a handgun and no one died that day. Police showed up 45 minutes later and were of no use, so why bother reported the three times I’ve had guns pointed at me in traffic since 2020?

When police response times are at or above the hour mark and the best you’ll get is an “oh that sucks man, need a report for insurance?” people stop reporting crimes. Now the politicians get to pretend crime is “better”.


Just because something used to be so much worse, it doesn't mean that the current state is good.


The general criticisms are that the current state is worse than it used to be though.

That's simply not borne out by the statistics. Long term trends have been steadily down, and even in the short term:

2017-2022 [0]:

* ~9,000 fewer incidents in total.

* Rape halved.

* Robberies 2/3 of 2017.

* Burglary/Motor vehicle theft increased but Larceny theft decreased by more than both combined.

Q1 2017/2023 [0]:

* ~4,000 fewer incidents in total.

* Only Motor vehicle theft and Arson were slightly up on 2017 levels.

Q1 2022/2023 [0]:

* Total incidents down by 9.7%

* Burglary down by 11.2%

* Motor vehicle theft down by 8.5%

* Larceny theft down by 12%

* Assaults did increase by 2.2%

* As did Robberies by 13.6%

[0] https://www.sanfranciscopolice.org/stay-safe/crime-data/crim...


These are all too gameable. Some even go against the grain of common sense. You think if you include porch pirates that theft is down, or that everyone knows there is no point in even reporting it. Murder is the only useful thing to track as a proxy for other crimes, but even that can make things seem better than they are due to better medical interventions.


Things like hospitals tracking gunshots and stabbing is harder to game, but a city can be relatively nonviolent and still feel like an absolute shithole of theft is petty and common.


This is certifiably untrue. Philadelphia, for example, just had our highest 3 year murder period ever. Additionally, we should really compare this to previous eras, not just the other highest crime periods you could name. We're at triple the homicides of the 50s and 60s, for example, and our population has declined since then.




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