There are a lot of conspiracy nuts like Alex Jones, and the amusing thing to me is that there is a conspiracy of elites who are exerting large amounts of unelected control of the government, and who are actively working to keep you down to enrich themselves, and it's not even a secret.
We call these people "billionaires", and at this point they don't even bother hiding it. Trump had a streamlined bribery system with his stupid cryptocurrency and being in charge of a publicly traded company while in office, Musk bought his way in so he could be in charge of a new department and start defunding any organization that has ever tried to investigate him, and there are hundreds of examples.
Instead morons like Alex Jones will go on the radio and blame lizards or something, and then his listeners will take that and then start blaming Jews or Mexicans, while cheering on the actual conspiracy that's making their lives terrible.
It is probably true, but it is also a useless statistic, let me explain.
8 billion people, avg lifespan 70 years, 115 million people die each year, percentage in capitalist economic zones... No clue, does china count? but probably 80 to 90% so about 10 years for capitalism to cause a billion deaths.
Some people just don’t want to hear it no matter what. Not because they are unusually stupid or inherently evil but because they feel severely hurt by the societal changes and left out. Anything that gives a hint of hope of reverting things to be the way they were is justified and no price is too high.
They can steal as long as they are our thieves.
To get through to these people you have to validate their deep fears. Not just say - shut up, you are stupid, vote for me.
> To get through to these people you have to validate their deep fears. Not just say - shut up, you are stupid, vote for me.
Everyone says this kind of stuff, but honestly I don't think I agree. Everyone says that you have to be nice to these people to attract them, but that doesn't seem to have been the case for people like Trump or any of the other demagogues that have popped up in the last decade or so.
These people are decidedly huge assholes. Trump is the most easily offended person I have ever seen, and whenever anyone ever goes against him he will go on his stupid Twitter clone and give a diatribe about how they're not true Americans and they're radical left and they're traitors and a bunch of other bullshit.
People like John McCain and Mitt Romney tried to meet people where they are and negotiate, and both of them failed to win the presidency. Trump went on stage, rambled a bunch of incoherent nonsense about how Mexico not sending their best or trying to brag about having a giant cock and he's been elected twice now.
I'm not convinced that being polite to these conservatives is actually the right path forward. I tried being polite to my grandmother when we would discuss these things and instead of reflecting on her believes she's fully fallen down the QAnon rabbit hole and has actively said to me that my wife should be deported.
One fictional character that I think is helpful to bring is Luke Skywalker. It’s not about politeness, but about genuinely knowing why people behave the way they are and then offering them alternative other than QAnon.
Listening to QAnon is a desperate attempt to understand the world after every other mainstream figure of authority failed that person.
What I am talking about is not politeness. Politeness is tone management. The McCain/Romney approach. I respect my opponent, let's find common ground, here's my reasonable plan. That is only decorum.
But Trump did validate. That's precisely why he won. He just validated the ugliest parts. When he said the system is rigged, that the elites despise you, that your way of life is under siege, millions of people heard the first person in power say what they felt. The content was often vile, the solutions were fraudulent, but the emotional recognition was real. He didn't win by being polite. He won by being the first one to say your rage makes sense.
The mistake is thinking validation means being nice. It doesn't. It means demonstrating that you understand what someone is actually experiencing before you ask them to go somewhere with you. Trump does this instinctively, he just leads people somewhere destructive.
I agree with what you’re saying while also thinking you’re underestimating the appeal of the destruction he’s leading them to.
It’s easier to tempt someone into getting a pizza with you than starting a diet, because pizza is more fun than diets. All that to say: the same mechanisms by which the alt-right is tempting people with cruelty aren’t going to be as effective when employed towards pro-social activity.
The problem is that we have been giving their kind the kid glove treatment for too long. We haven't even begun the iron flove treatment for them. They go about running their mouths blabbering incoherent nonsense turning themselves up into a frenzy and you think about "understanding" them. There is no understanding those who actively hate sanity, the only correct approach is to relentlessly mock their kind, protect your family and friends, stay armed and carry always, stay clear of these unpredictable and violently insane as much as possible, avoid giving them business, etc.
I don't think I disagree much with what you said, but frankly I think that is a task for other people.
I am exceedingly impatient with this kind of stuff, from people that I think should know better. I try to avoid these arguments now entirely and live in my happy progressive NYC bubble.
No doubt that diplomacy with this stuff is necessary but I don't think that that's something anyone should want me specifically for.
I think what you’ve said is thoughtful and honest and I disagree with the downvotes.
I’m one of the politically homeless, and not even a resident of the USA, so I suppose I have an easy out.
Life can be very hard, and I don’t fault anyone for prioritizing their life over a political situation that is so very hard to affect. I do appreciate those that dedicate themselves though, the ones that seem to be helping and not hurting, anyway.
I don’t think I was downvoted, at least I not as of the time of this writing, though I don’t generally care if I am. I already have a ton of HN karma and I also don’t want to have my name attached to an opinion I will not defend I don’t see the point of unpaid social media if not to have a place to express honest opinions.
It’s not like I am apolitical; I donate money to causes I support, and I am generally willing to argue my beliefs if it’s something I believe it. I have my opinions, many of them very strong.
I am just saying that I am not an ambassador. I don’t really have a strong desire to “convert” people, and I don’t think I am the right person for that particular job. There’s value in it and I am ok with people doing it. Just not me.
At least in my case, I have just cut off contact with her.
My parents are pretty decent people so I still talk to them a lot, but I can't deal with my grandmother anymore. If she thinks my wife (who was evidently on a Green Card at the time she said that) doesn't deserve to be here, she's allowed to think that, but she's not entitled to me being nice to her. I weighed my options and it came down these three choices: a) swallow my pride and roll my eyes and let her continue to be a racist sack of shit towards my wife, b) push back on the stuff and constantly argue, greatly upsetting my mother, or c) cut off contact to avoid this.
For someone like me option A really isn't a viable option, and and of the remaining two C seemed like the best.
Sometimes I wish I didn't have principles; that grandmother is ridiculously rich, and I likely could have wormed my way into the inheritance pretty easily. If anyone doubts that I believe in my principles just remember I turned down being a potential millionaire because I refused to yield on what I think is right.
My step-mother (who didn't come into my life until around the time I got married. She is actually a pretty nice person overall, she is just... shall we say, opinionated, and could be somewhat racist once the conversation turned to politics. I always stopped participating in the conversation when she made racist statements, but she never fully seemed to take the hint.
Then we had a child. Once our kid was old enough to start understanding what people were saying, I put my foot down at one point when we came to visit. To paraphrase: I said, look, you're free to think whatever you want about whoever you want but the racist shit has to end when my daughter is around. Otherwise we need to head back home.
After that, it never happened again and we still keep in touch with her to this day. Some people just need to be told exactly where the boundaries are and then they respect them. (But of course not all will.)
And she'll continue to think the way she did before. But at least she shuts up so you've achieved that much. Beware of what happens when you leave your kid with her if you are not around, better yet, don't.
To whoever downvoted this: you're an ass for downvoting this without at least explaining why you disagree. It's perfectly valid to give up on people, there is only so much time and energy to go around. You could lean into the negativity or you could choose to spend your time and energy on other people instead.
> you're an ass for downvoting this without at least explaining why you disagree.
This 'drive-by downvoting' is becoming endemic on HN. Downvoting should be reserved for comments that do not contribute to the conversation, not as a lazy way of signalling disagreement because you can't be arsed writing a rebuttal.
Such downvoting leads to groupthink and unpopular ideas being hidden. It's turning this place into another Reddit (a statement of truth, no matter what the HN guidelines say).
I have long thought that the greatest harm conspiracy theories do is to distract attention from actual problems, and to discredit attempts to draw attention to them by labelling them all as conspiracy theories.
Other things are used too. A lot of the attention given to culture wars issues distracts attention from other issues. Its not just the right either. It allows people to pose as left wing while actually not being left wing on economic and business issues which are the traditional definition (the labour party in the UK - to be fair the left within it does seem to the reviving now).
With the Epstein affair, the shock people feel about sex crimes is being used focus just on those to avoid investigating the corruption in the US and other countries . The UK's two high profile arrests, of former Prince Andrew, and the far more important Peter Mandelson (former cabinet minister, for EU Commissioner, very close to multiple Prime Ministers) have been for passing on sensitive information but this is almost certainly a tiny fraction of what was going on.
I don't think the world needs another geeky guy making a podcast about his unearned political opinions.
I have all the equipment necessary for a podcast (a decent Shure microphone and Zoom sound interface), but my political opinions don't usually stray too far from typical American progressive stuff and there's already a million podcasts for those kinds of viewpoints from people more educated on these subjects than I am.
When I have a perspective that I do think is unique I'll write something on my blog but generally I've stayed away from any kind of partisan politics on there because I don't see the point in regurgitating the same stuff everyone else is.
You might give it a try. If you signal your loyalty consistently enough, you might find a patron who will give you a little money to live as a progressive missionary. You may not have the genetic bona fides to get a speaking role on NPR, but there are plenty of fake charity jobs out there supporting “the movement“
There are a lot of conspiracy nuts like Alex Jones, and the amusing thing to me is that there is a conspiracy of elites who are exerting large amounts of unelected control of the government, and who are actively working to keep you down to enrich themselves, and it's not even a secret.
We call these people "billionaires", and at this point they don't even bother hiding it. Trump had a streamlined bribery system with his stupid cryptocurrency and being in charge of a publicly traded company while in office, Musk bought his way in so he could be in charge of a new department and start defunding any organization that has ever tried to investigate him, and there are hundreds of examples.
Instead morons like Alex Jones will go on the radio and blame lizards or something, and then his listeners will take that and then start blaming Jews or Mexicans, while cheering on the actual conspiracy that's making their lives terrible.