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yes and the results and actions taken after the Nov 6 US elections may undo some of the damage. But no other country will ever trust the foreign policy of the US no matter what happens.


There is the military saying "Once is an accident, twice is an attack", this is how a lot of folks see it.

I think it is deeper, that these actions were taken at the top and a sizable amount of the people sided with them, that sends the message that the US cannot be trusted long term, it has become cultural. I get that it isnt a majority of people but it is big enough that it cannot be ignored.


"We cannot leave the security of Europe in the hands of voters in Wisconsin every four years."

Not trusting the Americans was a French thing ever since De Gaulle. It just took the rest of the Europeans 50 years after his death to pick up on it.


That is a brilliant line. And yes Emanuel Macron has been taking this treat seriously as he is very well versed on Da Gaulle.

He might not have the best domestic moves but when it comes to Geopolitics, he is all over it.


> yes and the results and actions taken after the Nov 6 US elections may undo some of the damage

You're assuming that 1) the elections will actually occur on Nov 6, 2) the elections will be fair, and 3) that the winners of said elections would take action and actually enforce the rule of law.

I'm not confident in any of those.


It will be interesting to see what happens. Many are hoping that there is a very strong turn out for the Democrat's so that any rigging cannot over come it, but this sounds like fan fiction to me. That said Trump hitting Iran may be the single biggest blunder of his political career, media influence can only go so far when there is a direct impact on all prices and potential stock availability in the coming months.

Hopefully a lot of the fears don't pan out but we won't know until it gets closer.

I'm not saying that there aren't better options but both major parties are complicit in how the system is organised. The US electoral system gets ever more distorted with every minor adjustment in the hopes of swinging various seats in their favour and now it just looks ridiculous.


Never say never.

Germany seems to have recovered quite a lot of trust following World War 2, to provide an extreme example of bad foreign policy.


Do you think the US is going to have Nuremberg trials? Do you think there will be a deep national reckoning about what happened?


Never say never.

> Do you think there will be a deep national reckoning about what happened?

About half of the people I know who voted for Trump this past election have deep regrets.


Do they regret voting Republican, or do they regret voting for this particular Republican candidate?


This is the crux. Trump is simultaneously a wholesale departure from political norms, but also merely a culmination of decades of reactionary talk radio preaching "Death to America" but then backing it off just enough for people to go to the polls and vote for "their" candidate.

Trump's second term should be the end of the Republican party. But if Bush II is an indication, the pattern was that while people gradually came around to seeing what a bad idea the Iraq War was and whatnot, they merely cooled off for a few years but then were right back at it getting fooled again a slightly different way. How much of the support for Trump was basically recycled criticism of the Iraq War (ie of the Republican establishment) ? And yet here we are now, with a nice shiny new quagmire (assuming it isn't an outright loss).

fwiw I'm a libertarian so while I actually agree with much of the criticism, it galls me even more how people can start with very individual-liberty-centric criticisms, but then somehow gleefully jump behind supporting authoritarianism when it can be their turn at the trough.


I have regrets when I say something dumb or drive through an intersection on a not-quite-yellow light.

Innocent people, including children, are dead. Republicans have done irreparable harm to this country on every imaginable level: civil liberties, trade, global power, economics. Open and naked corruption is so off the charts it can only be described with comparisons to the post-Soviet era.

"Regret" is, quite frankly, insulting.


I hope they are suffering deeply for it. They got exactly what they voted for.


"Deep regrets"

L-fucking-O-L

What did they expect?


What exactly do they have deep regrets about, though? Do they regret voting for someone with his style? Do they regret empowering an obvious corrupt liar? Do they regret supporting someone who focuses on who to blame and hurt, rather than on things that might actually help (albeit in regrettably marginal ways in all three cases)?

Or do they just regret that they were fooled by this guy, specifically? That he's not accomplishing his stated goals, whether or not he is taking his promised actions? If it's this one, then it's only a matter of time before another charlatan does the same thing better.


Usually they regret him not being extreme enough. Being personally harmed to a very high level also works. The keyword is very high level, people are willing to take a lot of pain for someone they think is "jesus".


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I don't disagree. The Democrats believed their "permanent Democratic majority" schtick, and enacted a bunch of things that much of the country deeply disagreed with.

But we also need a national reckoning on ICE's excessive use of force, DOGE, using the DOJ to prosecute political opponents, the financial irresponsibility of the "Big Beautiful Bill", the attack on the Capitol, the rest of the attempt to undermine the results of the 2020 elections, the tariffs by executive order, the threats to Canada and Greenland...


I also don't disagree, we need a national reckoning on all the things!


This is my now flagged original comment. Upset some people:

>Do you think there will be a deep national reckoning about what happened?

You're witnessing one. This is the national reckoning on open borders, DEI/wokeism, etc.


Through selfless deeds, hard work and admitting their failures to the fullest, for generations till now. Somehow I don't see that happening easily with american ego


They didn't tho. West Germany was still governed by ex Nazi politicians and bureaucrats after the war. This was the primary reason that the Red Army Faction formed and carried out its attacks.

The Bundeskriminalamt (BKA) was staffed by many ex SS officers.

Nuremberg Trails are continuously trotted out as an example of a system that works, but 200k people are estimated to have participated in crimes against humanity, of which only around 6700 were convicted, or 3.3%.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Army_Faction

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theo_Saevecke

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Dickopf

https://www.waz.de/politik/article4512500/die-braunen-jahre-...

https://www.warrelics.eu/forum/history-research-third-reich-...

https://www.jvl.levit.dev/the-prosecution-of-war-criminals

https://us.cnn.com/2018/12/14/europe/germany-nazi-war-trials...


they're also on the cusp of throwing it all away, again.


It is wild seeing the elctorial maps of Germany and you can almost exactly recreate the East-West split. Decades later and it is coming back to haunt them.


tbf the east-west split never really stopped haunting Germany. its not like it came suddenly. there are a lot of systemic errors that lead to this.


Tbf, the east/west split is the one part that wasn’t the Nazis’ fault unless indirectly as a consequence of starting and losing a second World War in a row.


I don’t think November 6 is going to be a reprieve. They have rigged the system so much that I don’t think it’s actually possible for the Democrats to make a comeback.


Even if the Democrats do make a comeback, they have spent half a century demonstrating that they are an, at best, an inadequate counter to America's awful political tendencies.


I actually like what they have done in the past, they’re level headed and reasonable. What I can’t stand and it makes my blood boil that they are completely ineffective without a political mandate. It’s a bunch of career politician cowards that may do well when everything is by the book but they remain completely emasculated when it comes to getting their agenda through. The Republicans even without a mandate will shuck and jive their way into getting their way.


If they lose it will be because they don’t track unfavorabilty ratings for your democrats as much as they do the current admin. It’s not enough (for moderates) to just say you hate the other guy.


The thing is a lot of people hate the other guy. It’s just that all this rigging just means they’re going to be disenfranchised.


This. Once bitten, twice shy


Fool me once, shame on... shame on you. Fool me... you can't get fooled again.


Really? Like Italy, Germany, Japan, etc can be trusted but after, I'm not even sure what exactly, the US is fully and forever untrustworthy??


> Like Italy, Germany, Japan, etc can be trusted but after, I'm not even sure what exactly, the US is fully and forever untrustworthy??

It took two generations and a new constitution for Germans to regain trust again.

You cannot trust the current generation of U.S. Americans, and the U.S. Constitution certainly does not alleviate that concern. They elect a god-king like president who seemingly has unlimited authority. Why would you trust such a country for more than four years?

Edit:

> but after, I'm not even sure what exactly

Killing people outside the USA left and right without due process? Starting a war and thinking that it is fun while the whole world is suffering because of that war? Kidnapping a head of state? Cosying up to the enemy of your allies during a war? Threatening allies? Declaring parts of an allied country as your own? Supporting Nazis in allied countries? Supporting separatism in a province of your neighbor (and until recently your closest ally)? Proudly telling the world what country the USA will assault next? ...


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Oh, don't worry, the way it's going other countries will be fast motivated to defend themselves from said foreign policy...or perish.


US protection can be valuable, but US dependence is dangerous.

The world is moving on.


It is a combination of moving fast and slow. A lot of Canadians now avoid purchasing products from the US were possible. Mean while their government while still dependent on the US is making the moves that will minimise their dependence on them over the coming decades.

I am seeing similar positions in other countries now.


It's absolutely shocking how many people believe other countries lack the means to defend themselves.




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