> So you're claiming that there is never any good that comes from speaking up against discrimination unless the law is involved?
Why, in discussions like this, do people struggle so hard to invent position the other person has never taken?
> How do you think laws get made?
No, the operative question is how do you think it happens? A group's wishes are compared to the wishes of other groups and to the Constitution. If the Constitution isn't violated and there's a public mandate (meaning there is something other than two equal groups, one for, one against), then there might be a new law.
> She quit because of the abuse.
Already answered -- let her start her own company. That's what a man would do in the same circumstances, and women are just as qualified as men to start a company. Or do you disagree?
> That's a professional and economic problem.
Yes, and it is one that women need to solve without trying to blame men for their problems. The sell-by date on that idea has passed.
Women need to wake up to the fact that there's no longer a man standing in the road, obstructing the path to the future -- only a straw man, one invented by women.
My favorite feminist anecdote took place during the MacArthur administration in Japan after the end of World War II. As part of MacArthur's constitutional reforms, women were immediately given the right to vote.
After the first election, the number of elected women became a matter of public comment -- they were elected in greater numbers than the pollsters had predicted. The newly enfranchised women were asked about it, and many said, "Oh, we thought we were only allowed to vote for women. Sumimasen (small bow)."
Sorry, but not being a woman, how would you know whether or not men are standing in the way? And in what respect are you qualified to pronounce women's complaints invalid? Yeah, whoever accused you of mansplaining upthread has your number.
Your premise rests on the idea that in order to get along with men, women must behave like men, in a system originally designed by and for men. And if they don't succeed, well, it's their fault because it's past the sell-by date.
Good call. You neatly absolve men from any responsibility, and completely disappear the uneven playing field. (Starting your own business is a non-answer— you're again playing the "have you tried acting like a man" card.)
> Sorry, but not being a woman, how would you know whether or not men are standing in the way?
That viewpoint is innately sexist. It essentially says only women can interpret women's experiences. If that were true (it's not) then by the same rationale only men can interpret men's experiences, which means women have no right to complain about men's motivations or behavior. So think before you post.
Women spend much of their time freely interpreting men's behavior, for example whether it's acceptable or not as though only a woman's perspective on men's behavior has validity, but when a man does the same thing, it's a sexist offense.
> Your premise rests on the idea that in order to get along with men, women must behave like men ...
Locate where I said or implied this. To get along with men, women must behave like people first and foremost (as do men). Your remarks continue the currently fashionable trend of reinterpreting everything as a gender issue. But in fact, much of human experience is not affected by gender -- certainly not technical or scientific activities, the present context. Good code, good mathematics, good scientific research, has no gender.
> ... in a system originally designed by and for men.
Living in the past will get you nowhere. Humans evolved in a world most recently shaped by and for prehuman simians. Did that hinder us? Not at all -- we reshaped the world to suit our needs. Now reshape yours.
> Starting your own business is a non-answer ...
Okay, I get it -- you really, really want to remain a victim. If you can't blame men for your problems, there are no other options. How do you think creative men and women deal with situations they find intolerable? Steve Wozniak repeatedly petitioned his managers at Hewlett-Packard to accept and produce his design for a personal computer, but failing at this, he left the company and started his own.
Marissa Mayer has a similar background -- Mayer joined Google in 1999 as employee number 20 and was the company's first female engineer. She eventually left Google and is now the CEO of Yahoo. Imagine how far she would have gotten by instead complaining about the very real sexism at Google and elsewhere.
Early in life, men learn that they have to build something positive, that to perpetually complain about how the world is arranged is a dead end. Many women learn this too, but it's voluntary.
> Starting your own business is a non-answer— you're again playing the "have you tried acting like a man" card.
Ah, so, based on the above quote, you believe than only men can start businesses. If I said that, you would have the right to call it a sexist and outrageous claim.
Why, in discussions like this, do people struggle so hard to invent position the other person has never taken?
> How do you think laws get made?
No, the operative question is how do you think it happens? A group's wishes are compared to the wishes of other groups and to the Constitution. If the Constitution isn't violated and there's a public mandate (meaning there is something other than two equal groups, one for, one against), then there might be a new law.
> She quit because of the abuse.
Already answered -- let her start her own company. That's what a man would do in the same circumstances, and women are just as qualified as men to start a company. Or do you disagree?
> That's a professional and economic problem.
Yes, and it is one that women need to solve without trying to blame men for their problems. The sell-by date on that idea has passed.
Women need to wake up to the fact that there's no longer a man standing in the road, obstructing the path to the future -- only a straw man, one invented by women.
My favorite feminist anecdote took place during the MacArthur administration in Japan after the end of World War II. As part of MacArthur's constitutional reforms, women were immediately given the right to vote.
After the first election, the number of elected women became a matter of public comment -- they were elected in greater numbers than the pollsters had predicted. The newly enfranchised women were asked about it, and many said, "Oh, we thought we were only allowed to vote for women. Sumimasen (small bow)."