...which is why, even though it's stupid, it makes a difference in your favor if you dress up to go to traffic court. Sometimes they care, sometimes they don't, but it's not usually worth the extra risk if you already own a suit, or even a dress shirt and khakis.
True but on the flipside, me personally I trust someone that isn't in a suit (maybe not as hacker look like Stallman) more than someone in a suit.
I think it is a generational thing, dressing up to me is mostly getting into your sheep B.S. clothing to make whatever you are doing look better. I have also been working in the game industry where suits usually mean you aren't a good fit or it is someone to probably not trust i.e. publisher/salesman.
I think for court you should put on your best, but in most cases I distrust the suit more than I trust it.
I am not so sure it's generational as I assume you are on the younger side... Forty-five here and I don't trust people in suits to much (or really religious people).
The casual dress code is still a dress code - tech is generally biased against those who dress up, which is not any different from those who stick to more traditional formal dress codes except that casual is cheaper to shop for, is more comfortable, and easier to maintain. That doesn't make anyone who adheres to one or the other dress code any better.
Ugh yes. I almost always dress up from tshirts+jeans due to a myriad of reasons (for one, tshirts aren't usually designed to fit boobs on the bigger side), and I've gotten negative comments as a result. I don't dress like a geek so I must be a wife/gf/non-tech person (one guy at defcon called me a slut...), I dressed like everyone else, I must be sucking up and trying to get "in"... can't win.
If it helps any, dressing up in suits as a stereotypical white nerd doesn't help either.
I generally just like to dress up as it makes me get in the zone of "work time" better. But I never have gotten called a slut i'll admit, but I do often get comments of "must have an interview today huh" and so on. I find the whole geek/nerd culture around clothes annoying as shit. For a group that professes to not care about the external person, we sure as shit do judge people on their dress.
That said, keep dressing up, it impresses the non nerds and interestingly allows you to drive conversations with them easier.
Also I got a comment today from a barista "you always wear the coolest sweaters" and then I explained where I get them. I dunno its fun finding cool clothes and I'm willing to share in my findings. So I think I will stick with getting my fashion insulted by nerds, and you should too.
Tell the jerks that call you not a geek to explain how to make a one instruction set computer off basic logic principles. Or whatever your speciality is really, if they flounder just go never judge a book by its cover. Then walk away and sashay it up is how I would handle those situations. Good luck!
Tell the jerks that call you not a geek to explain how to make a one instruction set computer off basic logic principles. Or whatever your speciality is really, if they flounder just go never judge a book by its cover. Then walk away and sashay it up is how I would handle those situations. Good luck!
In my experience - as a bystander, since I'm a man - that'd be a good way to provoke insults and (if the jerk knows you) defamation behind your back.
Quite possibly, however I have low tolerance for those kind of jerks in real life. I've long since given up caring what they think or say behind my back or in front of it.
WTF? Woman should be more worried about what is said behind their backs then men? Are you saying when someone is a jerk to you to just take it? Being a man, you know that's not how we roll so why should a woman do anything different?
I'm saying that women are much more likely to have anything said behind their backs, and of what is said being taken seriously by others. I never said you should "just take it", you're assuming stuff I didn't write.
And just because I'm a man that doesn't mean I "roll" in a certain way.
I have been in the workforce a long time and never noticed people talk more about woman behind their backs then men. Source on some research in that area?
So you are saying woman should be more concerned about their "reputation" then men? Sounds a little sexist to me... Hint, if you are going to give advice maybe you shouldn't involve gender when it is irrelevant.
No, I'm not saying women should be more concerned. I also never gave any advice. I'm not sure why you keep trying to put words in my mouth. I meant exactly what I said, and nothing else.
>In my experience - as a bystander, since I'm a man - that'd be a good way to provoke insults and (if the jerk knows you) defamation behind your back.
You were not saying (as a man) you don't think it would be wise to confront someone who was rude to their face because they may talk behind her back? Sounds like advice... Oh, wait! It was just a warning!
??? I was referring to the original comment which was about things said to one's face. It was icebraining that was concerned about things said behind one's back.
Ironically, vis-a-vis this thread, my non-court, non-client in the office legal uniform is slacks or jeans and a flannel shirt.[1] It's as comfortable as you can get in winter, and I get no shit from anyone about it.
[1] My Oregonian wife is slowly turning me into a lumberjack.
It's not a dress code. It's just not adhering to another dress code. There's a difference. You don't just wear a suit RANDOMLY. Any random thing you wear is casual. Literally millions of different styles are casual, and there's like maybe five different styles of suits?
When I go out, I personally feel more comfortable in good looking, "business-casual" sort of clothes. That's generally a brown vest, some black pants and slightly fancy shirt, all of which I got for a total of 20 quid at a charity shop back in the UK. And yet, that set of clothes which probably costs less as a whole than the gaming shirt my buddy was wearing at the time got me an off-hand remark of "dressing up too fancy for a geek".
I'm very much a geek at heart and the guy knew it... but don't mistake the shirt-and-jeans culture for a "wear what you like" culture. It's a "wear what I like" culture, and the "what I like" is shirt and jeans.
Casual dress code does not include a clown costume, so it's far more constrained than your suggesting.
As to suits it's one of those fractal breakdowns with a lot of varity if you get specific enough. EX: You could say fat vs skinny ties, but the there is a wide range of patterns wich fit a wide range of shirt colors. Not just Red tie on white shirt.
Personally I like semi formal dress codes simply because they have a default and require minimal thought. Where casual has a lot of 'hidden' rules.
Actually, in the valley casual dress for men tends to consist of dark blue jeans, button down shirt, dress shoes, and blazer. It's as monotonous as tshirts/jeans/tennis shoes
Really? Wear a suit to your next startup interview and see what the negative reaction is. I worked at a company where anything other than jeans was frowned upon. You know what, in August I'd rather not wear jeans. Dress pants are way more comfortable (hint, they breath better).
A few years ago I was working for a west coast tech company (not bay area) and was regularly wearing long-sleeve button-down shirts (without a tie) with khaki pants.
A few coworkers said something to me, but I didn't think anything of it because (from my perspective) they didn't care about their own appearance. Then my boss told me that the company actually didn't have a dress code and I didn't need to dress like that; I assured him that I was dressed that way because I liked dressing that way. Then HR talked with me. That's when I finally took the hint.
The dress codes that most people are familiar with place a lower-bound on how you can dress. "No shoes, no shirt, no service", or "You're a groomsman, you can't show up to the wedding in a t-shirt you lunatic". The tech industry has a dress code, but it places an upper-bound on how you can dress.
My humble conspiracy theory? Upper-bound dress codes encourage social stratification. This is desired by people who are in power, but are surrounded by very clever and moderately well paid people (developers). Imagine if software developers stopped thinking of themselves as "others" and started assuming the role of respected professionals with all the social standing a respected professional typically gets.
Usually when you're new and don't already know the dress code, you show up 1 step above what you guess would be acceptable. Typically it's better to be over-dressed for a day or two rather than be under-dressed (fear or looking unprofessional/not serious).
