Not that I condone treachery, but growing up my father used to have a famous line "Old age and treachery will beat out youth and enthusiasm any day". And although he wasn't a programmer, but rather an investigative thinker, his subtle manner of obtaining voluntary compliance seemed to win the day. Whilst not treachery in the blatant sense, there was allot to learn from this wisdom which is only gained from life experience. Would I have hired Doug, probably, but I think maybe I would have been better self-served being HIRED by Doug. My age - 43 and irrelevant IMO.