It's absolutely possible for individual employees to have generous vacations, while at the same time maintaining a continuously staffed support function.
Eh, Europe has some great service cultures. (There was a recent comment citing an article contrasting its furniture and tech industries I’m having trouble finding.)
European tech’s service culture is just distinctly and notoriously terrible, even within Europe.
The fact that you ignore the core of what I said and deflected with distraction is quite telling.
I agree with you, but the point was not anything about work life balance; it was about not being selfish, self centered, narcissistic; realizing that others may not have the ability or are not going on vacation at that given time and there should always be someone, especially in a kafkaesque type bureaucracy as Germany, who can assist in accomplishing whatever horrific bureaucratic control mechanism must be suffered to accomplish basic things.
My point was about continuity, not you talking about your vacation to rationalize the abuse of others who are not going on vacation but whose life you impact by your absence and lack of continuity, someone else not being able to competently perform your role in your absence, making them have to wait for your return from your work life balance vacation. It’s just narcissism, the disgusting mentality I called out and you reacted to.
> the abuse of others who are not going on vacation but whose life you impact by your absence and lack of continuity
That’s the point - this doesn’t matter and work is organized so that people can go home guilt free.
Coworkers should be able to take over; managers are responsible for coordinating vacation time, training and handovers. The customers are free to switch companies.
Talk about narcissism. You don't want anyone to have any guilt even when they adversely and negatively affect others.
How about this, you don't put others in a bind or adversely affect them if you don't want actual guilt, regardless of whether you want to feel it or not. This is the kind of messed up mentality that I was saying is so prevalent across Europe, if not narcissism, very much narcissistic in nature... I don't care about anything or anyone else but me and my vacation/time off.
And no, please don't try to distract with the red herrings. I am not advocating for employees to be abused; there is in fact a middle ground which I am advocating for, where if you want "guilt free feelings" ... DON'T BE GUILTY of abusing others by not caring about your responsibilities towards them.
It does still apply to companies, which, if you have some standing, let alone paid relationship with; have a duty to engage in that relationship. But I am also mostly talking about the bureaucracy, since that is in fact the OP topic, bureaucratic entitled narcissists simply just leaving others in a lurch because they go on a month long vacation, literally causing and costing damages and financial loss to someone.
> I am not advocating for employees to be abused; there is in fact a middle ground (…) DON'T BE GUILTY of abusing others by not caring about your responsibilities towards them.
My point is that the responsibility of the employer towards the employee (to allow time for vacation) has priority over the responsibilities of the employee towards the customer. It’s not the employee that failed you, it’s the employer. The employee cannot stay at work and the employer is responsible for providing replacement.
> narcissism and selfishness that is utterly indifferent to the needs of others
This has to be rage bait right? What kind of hellscape do you live in where other humans taking vacation and wanting that to be respected is selfish? And how do you not realize the irony in what you're complaining about? Do you never take a vacation where you actually disconnect from your work?
I am German living in Germany and yes, I think not organizing a holiday replacement when you leave for more than a week is a sign of negligence and indifference; but unfortunately, it becomes more and more common to behave in that way. Many projects don't make any progress between mid of June and late August, depending on the number and diversity of stakeholders. I'd like to declare these ~10 weeks "individual contribution weeks" in which no one is allowed to do anything that needs the coordination of more than two persons.
it's because there is no incentive in general in EU to be excellent at your job. good or bad, you get the same pay, and dont get compensated for bringing extra value to the company
Obviously untrue, any place on earth you get rewarded for being better at your job, either directly by being promoted or after asking/getting a higher salary, or indirectly by being able to change jobs by outright being better. This is true in most sectors, especially in software where it's really easy to switch jobs if you have the slightest amount of brain power.
Where are all these misconceptions come from? And how are they so far from reality they don't even pass the slightest of critical thinking?
As a software engineer that has worked in multiple German companies I can tell you that it’s not the case, or at least in Germany. If you do an amazing job, they would praise you and give you a promotion with 2% salary increase and more work. To add salt to the I wound, your colleague that has been on paternity leave for 3 months and on sick leave for 4 months would get the same salary increase
Do you think those things are all because of "there is no incentive in general in EU to be excellent at your job"? How on earth is all these things you're complaining about related? You're seemingly only interested in listing what you think EU does wrong, but none of your arguments are connected, why don't you write one proper comment instead of this trash you're sharing currently?
I’m not sure if you meant it, but it is indeed the EU, or what it represents and its purpose to suffocate excellence that is at the very core of this matter.
But the pay does not actually matter either, people can and do excel in spite of pay and even time in many places in Europe and the world. What you are probably inadvertently lamenting is the very purpose of the EU, the underlying mechanism that exists in other packaging like “communism”, but whose underlying mechanisms, the machine underneath the cladding is really just management and suppression of the parasitized masses.
They don’t want you to excel, because you excelling scares the ruling class cabal because you may exceed them. That is at least until they can get their own kind into place and control everything like in the US, then they’ll support this fake narrative of excellence that is prevalent in the US, but is really an illusion, a fraud really, like most other things in the U.S. where nothing is what it is said or implied to be.
I was referring to (mostly) internal projects in "German Mittelstand". Some of them with external partners. Customers might have the same problem, though, if they rely on the expertise of a single specialist. Regular customer support is usually available 8 hours per day, 5 days per week, but that's not what I was referring to. They usually don't manage projects.
What are you talking about? I was referring to German companies where we don't have proper holiday replacements for internal projects, as well as for those with external partners.
> Many projects don't make any progress between mid of June and late August, depending on the number and diversity of stakeholders
That's what, less than 8 weeks, in a year of 52 weeks, where things progress slower, and this is supposedly a big issue? And even if you know and understand that these other people are humans too, just like you, this is seen as "narcissism" and "selfishness", that they take vacations in the summer?
I'm sorry but this is borderline insane and inhuman, do you never rest? I understand your point of view when we talk about huge corporate entities with thousands of employees, but even SMBs with like 200 employees end up in a situation where people with specific jobs will have to be unavailable for weeks (as again, they're human just like you) and you can't realistically hire people to replace those for just some weeks.
It might be a minor contributor, but it sure isn't the reason.
If you do do much admire economic success through suffering, can I assume that you have relocated to China? (mainland) Because they sure know a thing or two about that...
if you think the status quo is sustainable, and that Europeans can live a luxurious life fueled by cheap Chinese workers...
> BERLIN, June 26 (Reuters) - Volkswagen is considering shutting four German factories and ramping up job cuts to as many as 100,000, two people familiar with the matter said on Friday, in what could be the biggest ever overhaul in the industry.
I very much agree, the status quo is not sustainable. But I really don't believe that the solution is trying to one-up China in whatever they are doing, or the USA, for that matter.
You are both missing the target. It's far too complex to fully elaborate on here, but suffice it to say that Europe has broken an iron triangle of choices, which not only limits the number of concurrent choices possible, but also require a minimum of choices to be sustainable.
Besides the whole AI thing, what exact "tech capability" is missing in EU or Europe today? Most things been preferable to get from the US as workers are generally abused there for profits, so been cheaper, but capability still exists in Europe and is ramping up. Do you have any specific examples or you're just on the typical anti-EU HN tirade so many of you seem to fall into as soon as EU is even slightly related?
What I wrote: "not organizing a holiday replacement when you leave for more than a week is a sign of negligence and indifference"
What you read: "taking vacations in the summer is 'narcissism' and 'selfishness' (...) these other people are humans too, just like you... this is borderline insane and inhuman, do you never rest?"
I rest my case, thank you. Also, 2.5 months are closer to 11 weeks than 8 weeks, but you don't seem to care about a sincere discussion anyways.
Is not rage bait even if it enrages you to hear the truth. It’s rather funny how the narcissists come streaming out of the woodwork when you call them out. But I understand it, narcissists have no ability to instant their own nature, i.e. they wouldn’t be narcissists. It’s an inescapable conundrum and paradox.
You rather typical deflection and distraction does not change any of what I said and you ignored in typical fashion. Humans taking a vacation is great and I fully support it and wish more Americans could take more vacations, but that’s a different topic you’re distracting with.
The selfish and narcissistic aspect is that of the subject post, lack of continuity, especially in a bureaucracy that affects others’ lives. It’s the simplest and most obvious form of narcissism. The fact that you are either unable to see it and are deflecting from it is rather revealing.
It is abrasive, selfish, and narcissistic to lack all ability to comprehend that other people’s lives should not be made dependent on whether one person is it is not on vacation. Is literally the height of selfishness … “I don’t care about anyone else or my impact on them”
Is this a joke you're attempting? You're raging out about someone else being so narcissistic for not letting you continue on with your whole entire life because they took a vacation?
What is ironic about that? There is nothing ironic about that. That's just you inverting and making stuff up out of narcissistic tendencies to deflect from the uncomfortable truth.
One person affecting the life of another out of selfish disregard is very much narcissistic, especially when it is an imposed and mandatory requirement that one is unable to affect. Me calling it out is what makes narcissists so activated and animated about it; and trying to deploy their typical deflection, inversion, distraction tactics.
How about this, if a bureaucrat's vacation plans are not covered by someone else that can perform their kafkaesque duties, then it means automatic action in favor of the citizen trying to follow the sadistic rules.
But that will also not be satisfactory to narcissists because it means they lose control and power over others. What do you think that feeling is that you are feeling on reading my proposal? There should be no risk in it since the system should/would simply make sure that there is always adequate competent coverage and some bureaucratic slave manager can whip the subordinate serf into compliance with whatever sadistic rules and processes that were put in place. But that too will cause narcissists to twitch because that means they will be accountable and have to be competent.
